VGTimes Interview with the Creators of Disco Elysium

Released in 2019, Disco Elysium was a sensation. Created by a small Estonian team, the game gave gamers deep characters, an incredibly well-developed story, made them cry and laugh — for many gamers, this gaming experience surpassed everything they had received from games before.

We talked to the developers (it took incredible effort to arrange an interview, it's probably easier with Putin...) and learned about the creation of the game, the fear of failure, the prototype of the main character and much more — and we are in a hurry to share the answers of the studio's leading screenwriters Helen Hindpere and Justin Keenan with you. Let's go!

VGTimes: ZA/UM started out as a collective of artists, writers, poets, musicians and other creative types, but not developers. Who first came up with the idea to make a game?

Helen Hindpere: It was our executive producer Kaur Kender's kids. He was a writer at the time — as was our project manager Robert Kurvitz — and at some point his sons came to him and said, «Dad, stop writing books, no one likes to read anymore, you should make video games instead.» In 2015, that seemed like a pretty crazy idea — there was no video game industry in Estonia, which meant not only did none of us know how to make video games, but none of our friends or their friends' friends knew anything either. But we tried everything else — books, bands, art shows, even a bit of journalism — and failed at literally everything. This seemed ambitious enough to at least try — and give it our best shot. It looks like it worked. Thank goodness! Who knows where we might be now.

VGTimes: The game has a completely unique world, story and atmosphere. Did you immediately come to this setting or did you think about different options? What else could Disco Elysium have become: a space adventure, a medieval fantasy, or something similar?

Helen Hindpere: The world of Disco Elysium is based on a pen and paper RPG that began in the 2000s. Back then, the Elysium universe was very different: it had elves and wizards, and some steampunk elements. Over time, the setting changed, and so did we. We swapped out spells for extraphysics, which is what the world calls mysteries unsolved by science, and the matter that separates the isoles (editor's note: think of them as continents) began to carry philosophical undertones. We wanted the universe to reflect the modern world with its historical and political complexities, but still retain some of the mystery.

The story of Disco Elysium itself was inspired by one of the RPG's campaigns, in which Harry was just one of many characters. You can communicate with the rest via radio — but I won't spoil too much. But yeah, the classic buddy cop detective story seemed like a good fit. We were able to hook people in with certain tropes — you wake up with a massive hangover and no memory of the past — but then throw in a lot of surprises. We also knew the story worked because we had spent a lot of time with the characters and really liked them.

VGTimes: How long did it take you to develop Disco Elysium and, if it's not a secret, what was the budget roughly?

Helen Hindpere: It took five years to develop, but the universe itself has been around for over twenty years. Unfortunately, we can't comment on the budget.

VGTimes: Many have compared Disco Elysium to the legendary Planescape: Torment. Did you draw inspiration from Black Isle Studios' game? What games in general inspired you?

Justin Keenan: There would be no Disco Elysium (or many other modern RPGs) if it weren't for Black Isle's projects. They are like the Big Bang or an ancient scripture of the genre. We love Planescape: Torment for the way it's written and for the beautiful way its themes and mechanics come together. Baldur's Gate 2, Icewind Dale and their successor Pillars of Eternity were also sources of inspiration for our team.

A friend recently told me that Disco Elysium feels like a game that could have easily existed 20 years ago, and I think it does. We like to think of it as a logical next step in a genre, or as a path we didn't choose. But the path is still there — and we're on it.

VGTimes: You put a tremendous amount of work into the game. Were you worried that gamers wouldn't like it?

Justin Keenan: There's always this simmering existential dread that what you've created is only good in your mind. It helped that the project continued to attract new talent throughout the development process. I remember the first time one of my fellow writers showed me the game in action, it was the scene where Harry and Kim first leave Whirling-in-Rags (editor's note: the hostel cafeteria where the protagonist is staying) and go investigate the crime scene. It was immediately obvious that this was something special — not just the quality of the writing and art, but the way they worked together and spoke with one recognizable voice.

I think we all knew that there were other people (gamers and non-gamers alike) who would enjoy what we were doing... But it's still completely crazy to think that there are over a million of them worldwide. It still amazes me that such a weird, dark game with so many words managed to resonate passionately with so many people. It makes me incredibly optimistic about the future of not just our work, but gaming in general.

VGTimes: At what point did you know the game had become a success?

Helen Hindpere: The answer will probably be different for each member of the team. But I would say that it really hit me when we walked off stage at the Game Awards for the second time. It's a secret, but we were so confident that we didn't stand a chance against such tough competition that we didn't even think about a victory speech. It was purely improvised, but it came from mentioning names like Viktor Tsoi and Vladimir Mayakovsky, who inspired us and our work. It was a humble and beautiful moment. And we were thrilled by the fan feedback. All of this gave us the strength to keep going.

VGTimes: If Disco Elysium hadn't been loved by gamers, would you have tried to make another game?

Helen Hindpere: Ha! It's hard to say. I definitely have a lot of respect for colleagues who don't look for immediate commercial success. It's a tough business: you work hard and worry about every detail, every annoying little bug — and still you might simply not find your audience... Not the most pleasant experience. But we are fighters at heart, so I'm sure we would have come up with another project in the end.

VGTimes: There are moments in Disco Elysium that make you think about the meaning of life, some that make you laugh until you cry, and others that make you laugh through your tears. How did that happen?

Justin Keenan: When we were first making the game, we didn't know if we'd ever finish it… There were periods where the chances seemed pretty low. We also didn't know if we'd ever get the chance to make another game. That obviously created a lot of pressure and stress, but it also gave us a certain freedom: we had to cram everything we could into the project. Who knows when another chance will come along? Game development is like a greenhouse or a pressure cooker — it has the ability to amplify, exaggerate, and distill emotions, and a lot of those emotions ended up in the game. The Fortress Accident in-game radio studio in Disco Elysium is both a meta joke about our team and former studio space, but also a real reflection of our own feelings and experiences. In these conversations, you will find all the beauty, hope, fear, anxiety and humor that we felt while creating the game itself.

VGTimes: Who came up with the amazing main character Harry? Is there a prototype for him?

Helen Hindpere: He is a constellation of various jokes, as well as pieces of ourselves. Quite a few of the team have struggled with addiction, depression and suicidal thoughts in the past. And who among us hasn't experienced grief? I think that's what ultimately makes it so relatable — you're not playing as a hero who's going to save the world, but someone who's struggling to get their life back on track. But then again, this isn't grim social realism (at least I hope so) or a monochrome European art film (you know what that is)... Harry isn't just about doom and gloom and living in poverty. Harry is also about hope, humour and love.

VGTimes: In Disco Elysium you can become a Nazi. Have you ever gotten complaints about rehabilitating Nazism or anything like that?

Helen Hindpere: I've actually been surprised by how mature and thoughtful the feedback has been about the political aspect of the game. There are four ideologies in the game: Ultra-Liberalism, Moralism, Communism, and Traditionalism, and each has its own consequences. The same goes for Traditionalism. The world reacts to your choices, starting with your partner Lieutenant Kim Kitsuragi, who always has a few kind words if you choose to insult him. I think this makes it clear that we are not trying to rehabilitate any ideologies, but rather explore where they come from and how they affect the world. Especially since in Final Cut, each ideology has new, unique quests.

VGTimes: You said you had big plans for the universe. Will the new game be a continuation of Harry's story?

Helen Hindpere: It's too early to reveal any details, but we definitely want to continue exploring the world. We can't just give up on Elysium and its 4.6 billion inhabitants in over fifty countries. They're too dear to us.

VGTimes: Are you already working on a sequel? When can we expect news?

Helen Hindpere: Right now, we're still focused on improving Final Cut. But we'll be sure to let you know when we have news.

VGTimes: In the world of Disco Elysium, there is no one more influential than the Innocence (the name given to the extraordinary individuals who shape the course of history). Are Innocences made or born? Is there a limit to their influence, and can their decisions be overruled? Did Dolores Day really have a glowing chest or is that just a tall tale?

Justin Keenan: The Innocence is the anointed of God, and they are determined by the members of the Founding Party. Whether their authority is innate or bestowed by the Founding Party is an important question, one that I am sure has passionate arguments on both sides. I can say that for those who accept the system, the decisions of the Innocence are not acts of will, but historical inevitabilities. You can think of them as figures whose very existence compresses and accelerates the processes of history. There is no moral dimension to this compression and acceleration, it is simply a fact of reality. There are people, institutions, and entire societies that reject innocent rule, but as in our world, it is difficult to live successfully outside the dominant socio-political system. But it is possible!

As for Dolores Dey, the most important thing is that this story is absolutely true for the people who believe it. There are facts in every reality, but surprisingly not all of them are completely consistent, even if they can be empirically verified.

VGTimes: How many isolas are there in the Disco Elysium universe, are there any more undiscovered?

Helen Hindpere: There are seven known isolas in the world of Elysium: Mundi, Seol, Samara, Graad, Katla, Yilmaraa, and Insulinda, where the game takes place. For the people of Elysium, this is the extent of their domain. It is difficult to say more than that — the secrets of the world are secrets to the players as well. However, it is known that while all seven isolas with their seas and landmasses have been carefully mapped by the inhabitants, there are vast areas hidden by the Gray (editor's note: the mysterious matter that envelops the world) that no one has ever visited. Attempts have been made to traverse these areas, but no one has returned alive. Who knows what might lurk in these places?

VGTimes: One of our writers tried many times to avoid getting shot during the Tribunal (one of the most emotional moments in the final game), but he never succeeded. Is that even possible?

Justin Keenan: Yeah, that's a moot point... The Tribunal is one of only a couple of truly impossible tests (I won't spoil the others). It's a bit of a narrative trick for a certain aesthetic effect. The narrative requires Harry to be incapacitated within a few days of the Tribunal, otherwise the story simply wouldn't work — the divergent branches would be too far apart. At the same time, we wanted there to be some drama in that moment, a sense that the dice are actually being rolled, but that the luck is running out at the worst possible moment. It creates tension and release that simply clicking through normal dialogue options lacks.

It also, I think, raises an interesting question about what those dice actually are (editor's note: every skill in the game requires a test, with success determined by a dice roll). In a way, the dice are another manifestation of Harry's subconscious, just like his skills or his Thought Cabinet. Maybe he picked up the idea from playing Wirrâl (editor's note: a board game in the Elysium universe), who knows? But I think the dice are how Harry subconsciously processes and justifies the things he does in certain situations. If you accept that, then there's nothing false about the dice sometimes being rigged.

VGTimes: Can you explain what the Gray is? Can it destroy the world?

Helen Hindpere: This is another of the mysteries in the game that there is no scientific consensus on. It was interesting to see how the debate between players mirrors the debate among the people of Elysium: there are those who accept it as an immutable fact of life and part of the world, while others are desperate to figure out what it is and what it does to the human mind and body. Some believe it can lead to the death of people, while others argue that talk of a coming apocalypse is just exaggerated hysteria. Ultimately, it is a symbol of the unknown and a manifestation of fear of the future. We are fans of realism in the spirit of the writer Emile Zola, but we have always felt that adding a touch of the supernatural is what helps us truly explore the human experience.

Even our world is far from being fully mapped: there is so little we do not know about the universe and the human mind. As a narrative tool, Gray helps us shed light on the mysteries we have come to take for granted in our everyday lives.

Disco Elysium is not a game for everyone, since it does not test the reaction or ingenuity of gamers, but requires attention, maximum immersion and a truly open mind. But it also rewards with such a rich spectrum of emotions that most AAA projects never dreamed of. Who would have thought that such a brilliant work would be created by a small creative team from the Baltics?

However, from talking to the creators, it becomes clear that the reason for the success lies primarily in the creators themselves. Helen Hindpere and Justin Keenan are extraordinary people whose personalities are imbued with creativity, the desire to create something unusual and real courage. The VGTimes editorial team wishes ZA/UM incredible success and dreams of quickly appreciating the new hits of the Estonian studio (or at least the upcoming film adaptation).

What do you think of Disco Elysium? Write in the comments!

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VGTimes has been operating since 2011 and during this time has visited dozens of exhibitions and festivals, where our journalists have collected many exclusive materials. For example, in 2019 we got to a closed screening of Cyberpunk 2077 at gamescom, in 2017 we prepared a photo report from WG Fest, in 2020 we were at the largest gaming event in Central Asia CAGS, and also visited IgroMir several times, where we saw Hideo Kojima and other famous developers.